Dear editor, I would like to know your opinions regarding male/female friendships. Can men and women be strictly friends? Do these relationships have the possibility to develop into something more, or does it stay strictly on a friend level during the course of the relationship? And if it does develop into something more, who do you think is the first person to raise their hand about what they want; men or women? I am curious to know your opinions about this because I have been having several conversations about with this friends that are male and female alike. And trust me, there will be a phone conversation about this in greater detail at a later date. Get excited. I know I am :) -LJ
LJ raises a topic that has been argued, pondered, and debated for... gosh, would 'years' even cover it? And everyone has their own thoughts and their own opinions on it. And I totally respect that. But, of course, I have my own opinions on it because that's what I do... have opinions. (Hehehe.) So, with that said, here we go... Schpiel number 1,204!
The answer is 'yes'. Men and women can be just friends. However, it is not without a great level of awareness that this happens. I have always been the girl to hang out with 'the guys'. In junior high, I had two or three girl friends and the rest of my best friends were guys. Into college (College Round I, that is...) I pledged a sorority and called my at-the-time-quasi-boyfriend to ask "What do you talk to girls about?"
His response? "I don't know! Hair? Clothes? Shoes? Boys? Something like that... Shouldn't you know this already?" (Gosh I wonder whatever happened to that guy!)
Anyway, I do think men and women can just be friends. But I do believe in the 'When Harry Met Sally' theory that there will always be some underlying attraction at any given time coming from one or both parties. (Yes, read that again... You'll get it.) TRANSLATION: Feelings may be coming from one person but not the other... At any given point in time. Feelings can switch. Meaning, the other person can develop feelings for their BFF (OMG I just said 'BFF'. OMG I just used text-speak in writing... Ohmygod I can't stop! What is wrong with me?! Ok. Back to my point...) while he or she has a significant other. Comprende? OR... You can both develop feelings at the same time which leads to your next question, LJ.
"Do these relationships have the potential to develop into something more, or does it stay on a strictly friend level during the course of the relationship?" Yes, of course they do. You hear stories all the time about people marrying their childhood best friend, their brother's or sister's best friend, or their geeky but somehow mysteriously cute lab partner. (Ok. Maybe that last one was a teen movie. But whatever.) An acquaintance of mine just shared with me her story of how she got together with her boyfriend. (And they're really cute, by the way!) She was dating someone throughout high school and into college. He wasn't treating her the way she wanted to be treated, and she would go to her male best friend about it. Finally, said male best friend says something along the lines of, "He's not treating you right. And I can. So what exactly are you doing??" And the rest is history. Obviously their relationship, like any other reality-based relationship, isn't all butterflies and puppies and Snuggle bears and kisses. It's work. But the fact of the matter is, she's finally being treated right, by the man she already loved on some level... And it just progressed into something more once he put himself out there in that light. (That's the key! Sometimes people don't go there because they just don't see their friend as a viable option. So then what do you do? Do you say something and risk an awkward, maybe friendship-altering interaction? Or do you keep your metaphorical mouth and heart shut and watch your friend date d-bags? ...And yes, girls can be d-bags too... GOSH am I classy!)
"Who's the first to raise their hand?" Who cares?! If you decide you have balls enough to say it, and it's worth risking that oh-so-uncomfortable conversation if things don't go your way, then you have balls enough to say something and risk being rejected. If you feel so passionately about someone then you should say it. Because even if it means you don't get the response you wanted, that person will be flattered. (Or should be! If he or she isn't flattered than you need think about how much that person values you...) It's a big deal to attempt to take a friendship to the next level. And, you never know... If you put yourself out there as a viable option, maybe your friend will start seeing you in that way! And then... There's your 'Happily Ever After'.
*cue doves, rainbows, baby deer, and bunny rabbits*
EDITOR'S NOTE: Want more of my opinion on why I don't think there can ever be pure, platonic friendships between men and women? Just ask. I'll respond to whatever you ask me. But I'm working on "getting to the point" sooner because my babbling is starting to annoy me. And that's a problem. But I'm always willing to babble upon request. So feel free! Peace, Love, and Lots of Baby Bunnies -Becky
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I'll start a comment on my own! FYI, I now have a WHOLE BUNCH of really awesome, smart, good-looking girl friends and like 1.5 guy friends. Yes, I'm serious. I don't know what changed... Maybe I LIKE talking about hair, shoes, fashion, and guys... Who knew?!
ReplyDeleteOK- do now know if it works the same way, but I have guy friends that I am just friends with. It is completely plutonic and it it totally works! Maybe there is a question of- 'Should i try to date this person?' or 'Will this work? I mean we both like the Carpenters?'
ReplyDeleteI think it can work....and it should work. We need friends and we need lovers. They have completely different roles in our life.
BTW: for the readers who do not know me...I am a GAY MALE. DUH!
Note TO editor: you can babble all you want...it is your BLOG!
Thanks for your insight Beck. I just love the fact you said baby deer and bunny rabbits, hahaha.
ReplyDeleteHey Rayme!
ReplyDeleteI think it DOES work the same way for gay men! I think, at some point, you decide that this person goes into the "Friend Zone" or he's potentially date-able. And you may get to know him and decide "Friend Zone". HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that HE never thinks of YOU in a different way. And, honestly, the situation can change depending a variety of things: where you are in your life, whether you're happy or not, what you're feeling is lacking in your life. At some point, he might fill whatever void is there. And there's that switch from friend into potential lover. Same thing regardless of sexual orientation.
I do think it is generally more complicated for you though because, realistically speaking, there are less gay people in the world than straight people. (I think..? I'd be surprised if it were reversed...) So your selection of 'potential partners' is lessened by that simple fact. So it's even harder to differentiate between "friend" and "Oh he's cute" ultimately. But also think about it... How many gay men do you know that SURROUND themselves with women? Because, you're right, they need friends. And they need friends that are non-threatening. Meaning, he doesn't, won't, and cannot have feelings for them.
However on the other side of THAT coin, how many women do you know with a gay best friend who silently wishes he were straight? There's totally an attraction there. So, like I said, maybe not mutual... But you sure as hell don't go up to someone slightly unfortunate looking and hope they have a great personality, no? (OMG I'm going to HELL for saying that! Oh well!)
Everyone's attracted, on some level, to everyone they associate with whether it's physical, emotional, intellectual, or just common interests.
LJ,
ReplyDeleteI do what I can. Be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waitress. Oh! And try the veal. (NO! WAIT! DON'T! That's just plain cruel... Seriously. Just get a steak...)
Becky- are you trying to tell me something? Do YOU secretly want me to be straight! I am flattered! :) See you soon! I have a rabid dog on my head!
ReplyDeleteI think men and women can be friends, but I think many women need to bear in mind that most men don't go out meeting women just to make friends.
ReplyDeleteHad a few females in my life give me complaints because they met some guy they thought was cool and fun, but they were not attracted to him (when he clearly showed he was attracted to her). My usual advice for any guy in that scenario is to just walk away, unless you can 100% let go of the "attracted to her" part and totally friendzone her.
Anyway, these women would complain because when said guy friend finally realized that he's got no chance of changing her mind towards "more than friends", he'll cut ties or just vanish. I hear the "WTF? Why can't guys be happy just as friends??" The problem is guys are not wired that way. We're taught since the onslaught of puberty to pursue women to get sex, love, and even a relationship...and we're even more bred to see "just friends" as "you're a loser who can't get a girl".
I'll admit I have a lot of female friends, and while I think a lot of them are very attractive women, I am not attracted to them. I have no intentions of pursuing them, and I'd be very very reluctant and skeptical if one of them suddenly decided they wanted more. I think when you see people like that, where you love them, but you don't see them as the future spouse...then it can work as friends. However, I've come to believe that if I have a deep attraction to a woman, I will cut ties before I accept the friendzone.
Women shouldn't be offended then when a guy decides "let's just be friends" isn't for them. In fact they should be thankful they won't have this guy constantly around them trying to change their mind, or worse give them drama when she happens to meet a guy she really likes as more than friends.
Rayme,
ReplyDeleteIt's not you, it's me. I'm just really focused on my career right now. I don't have time to date. (Or try to turn you straight...) Hmmm... what else can I come up with?
Anyway Rayme, straight or gay, purple, green, or yellow, you'll always rock. Hakuna Matata!
D-Jam,
ReplyDeleteYou couldn't have said it better. I totally agree with you. People, generally, want companionship in a romantic way. In a heterosexual or even homosexual lifestyle, both parties are not looking to meet people purely to be friends. The intention is to see them as a potiental mate and if it doesn't work, friends it is.
And I agree about the level of detachment that needs to happen in order for males and females to be just friends. Sometimes people can detach, and sometimes they cant. It's weird. In my own experience, I dated a guy who I thought I fell in love with. When he said that he wasn't ready for a serious relationship or to date exclusively (which I think is a WHOLE other topic for another day) of course I was crushed. But he also said that he really valued me as a person and was afraid to NOT have me in his life. Essentially that I was one of his best friends...
It took a LONG time, and a lot of self-control to be able to detach from him in a romantic way. He would talk to me about girls he met and dated and all the drama around them, and I tried so hard to give him objective advice. To genuinely be a good 'girl friend' and decided that if it was meant to be, he'd see what an asset I was to his life. To let him have his journey and do his thing.
At some point, I really did detach from him romantically. I don't remember exactly what happened but I remember him coming back and being like "Do you think I really messed up with us?" And my response was, "Yes. But I think it was for the best." And I genuinely meant it. Yes, I cried over him on and off for a year. (My own fault. Not blaming him.) But I also, in my heart of hearts, felt no romantic feelings for him when he 'came back'. I couldn't view him in that way anymore.
I don't know if it was self-control, or even possibly 'falling out of love' (that's assuming I was IN love with him in the first place. I'm not so sure about that...) that led me to have that peace and confidence with it.
But it's not just guys that experience this. It's women too. Eventually that guy and I fizzled out friendship-wise as well, and I really don't feel like I'm missing anything in my life. So, I think temporarily I could be just friends with him. But I think now I can't. And it's not because feelings would resurface. It's because my feelings toward him, regardless of platonic or romantic nature, changed. I fell out of love with him as a friend too. Does that make any sense?
Hey Becky! I love reading your "babbling," and to let you know I think you're just as funny in person as you are in writing.
ReplyDeleteOn to my point... I have the same problem that you had in high school, whether it was a problem for you I don't know but it has definitely become one for me. I have always gravitated more towards guys friends-wise. I have lots of good girlfriends but somehow the guys in my life end up becoming more like best friends. (I'm not very good at talking about hair, shoes, bunnies etc.) Towards the end of high school, i noticed a change in these relationships. Almost all of my guy friends eventually ended up wanting more. The only guy friends I have ever been able to make work in the long run are either friends of exes or exes themselves, and sometimes they even have a hard time wanting to stay within the friend boundary. I started to try to change this by analyzing the way I treated them; maybe I was being flirtatious without even realizing it. I didn't want them to feel like I was leading them on, when all I really wanted was a big brother sort of guy to hang out with and look out for me and so on.
So after changing the way I treat my guy friends, much is still the same. I have been in school about 4 months and my best friend here is, yes you guessed it, a guy that lives on the floor below me. I absolutely love and adore him, he's a really amazing person, but I don't see him in a romantic way. Plus I'm at a point in my life where focusing on school is my number one priority and a boyfriend just isn't in the cards for me right now. So this guy put himself out there and told me he wanted to be more than friends. Telling him I didn't feel the same was really hard, but I didn't want to lose him. And I didn't want things to change between us, even though I knew they'd have to in order for him to get over those feelings. I gave him space but he didn't want it for very long. He told me he was ready to be just friends, and I believed him. We went through this cycle maybe 2 more times, and part of me knows that it's not a good idea to stay such good friends with him. But I am human, and I am ultimately a selfish creature, so it's hard to actually live by what I know to be right.
So what's a girl to do? Should I grow up and start acting like a lady? Cut ties with my best friend here? Lay it on me.
xo D.
No way, Jose! Listen, you sound like you're doing great. (And WAY ahead of your time, might I add!) Just be clear. Instead of telling him the feelings just aren't mutual (Although I'm not sure how much more blunt you can get) you can really put your foot down in saying that you really do adore him as a friend. And he absolutely is an asset to your life. (Tell him what you like about him so he doesn't feel totally rejected.) But also make it clear that if he continues to 'change his mind' then maybe it'd be better if you weren't friends. Yes, it will suck for you temporarily. But a couple things are going on here that you need to realize...
ReplyDelete1. He's right for having feelings for you. You're awesome. And besides being awesome, you really don't CARE whether you have a guy on your arm or not. (Or, rather, you on his...) And that's even more attractive. You're a conquest. So a 'thank you' is definitely in order before you get to the 'keep it in your pants' part. :-)
BUT...
2. If he doesn't listen to what you're saying and take you seriously then he's not showing the level of respect that you deserve. If you have to tell him time and time again that you just want to be friends, then maybe he really CAN'T be that. Let him know you're not playing games. You're not playing hard-to-get. Your priorities are really not there right now. And it would be even worse for you to get involved with this guy and then treat him less-than-satisfactorily (is that even a WORD?? Less satisfactory? Not up to par? WHAT THE DEUCE!?! You know what I mean!) because you have different priorities and then you have ZERO friendship whatsoever.
So, what would I do? Tell him to pick his poison. He can have you in his life if he swears to respect your space and needs. And if that's not ok with him, then you really aren't left with an option. I think that's more than fair. And I think you're in a great predicament. It's tough to be so loved, huh?!
xoxo,
B
P.S. You ARE acting like a lady!